PHS Wastetech problems

[lifeboatman]

I am the membership secretary for the Fedreation of Small businesses in Brighton & Hove. We have taken 140 members away from PHS and as you can see from the mass of evidence in this thread DO NOT TOUCH Them with a barge pole. WE have attanded court with 8 of our members and got a repayment order with ALL of them. It is throughout the country, and if you try to unpick this multi-million turnover conglomerate its a nightmare of companies owning companies. Just call their bluff and tell them to get lost, their records are so bad that mostly they do not have a signed copy of your contract, because they have taken over good small companies and then imposed their draconian terms on you. In our area TEAM waste and Kingspan are very good and less than half of the price of PHS and are members of FSB which means GOOD, responsive service which will respond if you have a problem. It's NO good making a note of who you speak to at PHS because the staff are only there for a few weeks and then leave. The previous post has to understand that ANY commercial organisation has by law to have a contract for commercial waste collection ( penalty £1000 ). You WILL be prosecuted if you try to feed commercial waste in with domestic!!!! If you need support contact your local FSB regional Office and if they have not experienced this problem in your area (YET) get them to contact the East Sussex FSB office for some advise on how to deal with it 01323 482018

[lifeboatman]

Just a note of encouragement to anyone with this problem, Brighton branch have now been to court to support members twice SINCE THE NEW YEAR and have won both. They have started a new tactic, to issue the summons in courts miles away ( a member in Sussex being sued in Manchester!!!). Probably because they have not had a bloody nose in Manchester. Apply to have it moved to a court near you (preferably one that has dealt with them before) the £45 court fee can be claimed back

[lifeboatman]

This Letter may help, just copy and paste:-

Below is a letter writen by a memember who fell into the same trap. Your small print may allow for charges relating to changes in legislation, but these also have to be reasonable and based on actual changes in legislation since your contract was signed.

Dear Sirs,
ACCOUNT NUMBER ..............................
Further to our recent phone conversation, I regret that your explanations of price increases are insufficient and unreasonable. I will not go into every detail of your behaviour at this stage, but confine myself to three distinct points:
1) MISREPRESENTATION
Your letter dated 13th August 2009 quotes a “Total estimated monthly charge” of £13.00 plus vat. There is no qualification to this figure, and I clearly relied upon your representations, made with your specialist knowledge (thus incorporating this as a contract term), when agreeing to do business with you.
Similarly the contract itself is endorsed in large, bold type, “Estimated monthly charge* £13.00”, although on this occasion it is qualified by an “L&D Contribution” to be added “at the appropriate rate”. Again this is a clear misrepresentation, prior to my signing the contract.
The law allows for the rescission of contracts signed after misrepresentation, or the payment of damages, or both.
2) ANNUAL WASTE TRANSFER NOTE ADMINISTRATION
Not only is this charge made without reference to the clear representations on price, but also it is out of all proportion to the service provided, and to your costs in this matter. I had an expectation of paying £156.00 plus vat per year, and yet you additionally charge £180.00 alone plus vat “to assist with the administration, storage and upkeep of records”. I challenge you to justify the level of charge in relation to your actual costs in this matter. I understand that the charge has escalated: 2010 £180, 2009 £144, 2008 £124, 2007 £104).
2) PRICE RISES
Six months after signing a contract with you, you impose a 97% price rise (excluding the L&D element). Your letter dated “April 2010” cannot be said to justify the increase, or fulfil your obligations with regard to notification. I challenge you to justify the level of increase in your costs (other than L&D tax). You must remember that it is an implied term in any contract that price rises must be reasonable, and therefore justifiable.
I look forward to receiving your prompt response.
Yours sincerely,

[Blackshaw]

I too have recived the above problems with the Annual Waste Transfer Notice. They have charged me £198.00 + vat = £237.60.
I also feel this is well extreme as i only have my 1000Ltr Eurobin emptied once a month @ an estimated cost of £10.86 as of when i signed my contract.
According to their terms and conditions i cannot cancel my contract as ive missed out the 3 month rule by a few weeks.
Any help will be appreciated

[lifeboatman]

I had this note e-mailed to me, sorry if it is yours but I feel it will help others!

Had our court hearing this week and we won the case. Judge ridiculed PHS's AWTN charge of nearly £240 for storing 4-5 pages of paper and disallowed the charge for Pre-acceptance legislation charge as PHS could not prove that it was applicable to our business. Judge also ruled in our favour 50% increase they imposed within 6 months saying it was unreasonable and PHS failed to notify me of the increase as stated in their terms and conditions. They ended up with less than I had offered them to start with. Well please with the outcome.
Special thanks to PolySings for providing the copy of their judgment.

We successfully beat these cowboys in court earlier this summer. See my previous posts in regards to the details of the case. I was just wondering as you have your hearing in Leeds, why don’t you transfer it to Pontefract which is only a few miles from Leeds, that’s where we beat these guys. The contracts judge at Pontefract ripped through their contract and found that:
-There are no limits stated to the AWTN charges and other extra charges as mentioned on the back of the contract. This is misleading as it allows PHS to charge anything.

[nurseryw13]

Hi there,

I found your website whilst doing a search on "PHS" and "dishonest" as we are having immense problems with them and I wanted to see if anyone else was. I was hoping to get some advice on how to start ending our relationship with them.

Similar to everything I have read on here, they have been complete crooks with us. They lie about how much they collect; apparently they came picked up nappies from our nursery when we were closed during christmas and had already collected the last lot and also apparently we have also sent them sharps! We are a nursery, what sharps could we possibly have?!

When we question anything they say that their collection schedule is their proof. When we try to terminate they say we can't until 2015! When we ask to see a copy of the contract which we don't appear to have they want to charge us £25 for it. When we pull them up on overcharges, very occasionally they will issue a credit note, but then the credit disappears into thin air as it is not credited against anything!

We have been having ongoing problems with these bandits for so long now and have been kept at bay with their continual threats of legal action, so could someone please give some advice on how to proceed with getting rid of them as we are sick to death of them.

Thank you.

[mike1]

See the very first post in this topic.
Join the Federation https://join.fsb.org.uk/
Contact FSB East Sussex

and win the battle

[lifeboatman]

PHS WASTETECH LTD.

The following information is a précis of contributions made on the
FSB Discussion Forum (Small Business Issues/PHS Wastetech Ltd.)
between August 2007 and November 2011.

The information supplied by forum contributors has not been verified.

Summary:
· PHS Wastetech is a large commercial waste management service operating throughout the UK.

· They either have taken over or also trade under the following guises (unverified and not exhaustive): Warner Howard, Shift It, 3b Waste Solutions, Clear Fast, Shred Easy, GB Nationwide, GW Butler, Dynamics, CLM Safety Ltd, Oak Hygiene (washrooms), Griffin Hygiene, Key Hygiene Limited. GB Nationwide, Personal Hygiene Services Ltd (Workplace Services) PHS Western Limited (Holding Company), PHS Allclear Limited Waste collection & disposal), All Water Systems Ltd (water dispensers), Karmaton Limited (washroom services), Watercompany International BV (water dispensers), PHS Services Ltd (holding company), PHS Group plc (holding company), PHS Holdings Ltd (holding company), PHS Investments Ltd (holding company), Teacrate Ltd (holding company), Teacrate Rentals Ltd (crate rentals), Mulberry Invest S.A (holding company), Servicios de Contenedores Higienicos Sanitarious S.A, Riverside Hygiene, Hygieco, FPS, Albany Washrooms, Indigo, whichhygiene.co.uk, nurserywastedisposal.co.uk, sanitarywaste.co.uk, sanitaryhygieneservices.co.uk, sanitarybins.com, scotlandhygieneservices.co.uk, northwaleshygieneservices.co.uk

· Members and non-members of the Federation of Small Businesses have been posting to a forum to highlight concerns they have over malpractices by PHS Wastetech. Concerns are individual and specifically unique, but do follow similar patterns and generally fall into six general categories (see next section).

Concerns raised:
· Rolling contract: Forum contributors have stated that PHS renew contractees from the anniversary date whether requested or not. Contractees have to give three months' notice according the terms and conditions. If you miss the three-month notice period, you are automatically tied in for a further 12-month period.

· Mis-selling of contract: Forum contributors have stated that they have been sold a particular service verbally, but the terms and conditions for the contract they receive differ greatly.
· Unclear small print: The small print makes reference to the following:
4.1 "PHS Wastetech reserves the right to subsequently increase the price and change the price structure of any item of service"
4.6 "PHS Wastetech reserves the right to charge the customer an annual Waste transfer note fee"
4.7 "PHS Wastetech reserves the right to change the price structure of any fixed price contract"
4.8 "PHS Wastetech reserves the right to charge the customer for any environmental and governmental changes to legislation that result in additional administrative costs"
If written as such, these charges do not specify incremental rates or when they will apply. PHS Wastetech claims that notification letters are sent. Forum contributors have complained that these notification letters are not received and believe they were never sent.
Forum contributors have also noted the type font being 2pt or 4pt and far too small to read comfortably.
· Charges are not reasonable: Forum contributors have noted that PHS will increase their collection and waste transfer charges at significant rates, often several times in a year, without prior warning. Forum contributors also note this happening particularly if a contractee tries to cancel a contract.

· Unnecessary charges: Forum contributors have noted they have been charged for an unnecessary Integrated Pollution Prevention And Control Audit. This relates to the disposal of chemical or hazardous waste only and contractees are advised to check their own situation with the environment agency.
In one case a judge ruled that charges for Waste Transfer Notices were illegal (unverified)
· Pile 'em high/knock 'em down: Contributors have complained of PHS applying excessive charges that the contractee believes to be unreasonable and excessive. This is more so when a contractee refuses to pay the additional charges. When court action is threatened, it is noted that PHS have then offered a settlement amount, which is less than the accumulated charges, but still more than what would be contractual or deemed reasonable. This is to try to prevent court action, whilst still claiming more than is rightfully owed.
General advice:
· Seek advice from your FSB regional officer, the legal helpline or from Malcolm Harvey, FSB Brighton and Hove Branch Membership Secretary (mail@harveywood.co.uk)

· A contract is a binding agreement and it is binding on both sides. Therefore, if PHS change the terms they could be in breach of contract.

· Keep a record of all letters sent. Send them by recorded delivery.

· Log dates and times of calls and keep phone records.

· Cancel any direct debits.

· Contact the Environmental Health and Council if you are charged for an Integrated Pollution Prevention Audit or Pre-Acceptance Audit.

· If a contractee has been billed for more than the contracted price and wishes to cancel, only pay the invoice up to the value of the contract, as the contractee believes it to be. (So if the contracted price is £25 and they bill for £40, pay the £25 and include a letter informing them that the additional £15 is in breach of contract)

· If going to court:
o Always ask for a breakdown of each invoice and what service you received for such a charge,
o Ensure that PHS show the dates and times of each waste collection
o If PHS does not send all the correct court documents by the deadline given the contractee can ask for the case to be struck out
o Prepare a bill of charges/log book of time spent

Other points to note:

· A number of forum contributors have either taken PHS to court, or have been taken to court by PHS, and have won (or partially won) their case. No forum contributor has cited losing a case against PHS Wastetech Ltd.

BRILLIANT NOTE

· Lord Justice Denning's Red Hand rule: In J Spurling v Bradshaw (1956), Lord Justice Denning stated, "I quite agree that the more unreasonable a clause is, the greater the notice which must be given of it. Some clauses, which I have seen, would need to be printed in red ink on the face of the document with a red hand pointing to it before the notice could be held to be sufficient." This comment is pertinent to the experiences of contractees with PHS Wastetech Ltd.

[lifeboatman]

. We had a brilliant result in Birmingham yesterday, the lady went for court arbitration which is conducted on the phone by a judge ( she said it gives you the chance, in simple language, ) to say things that would be difficult in court. This is the first time I have heard, in detail, of how this happens. I will recommend this to people who are nervous about attending court. She had a figure in mind that she hoped to settle, PHS wanted 70% of the claim, she ended up paying less than her target amount and being FREE of the contract!!!

[lifeboatman]

Take heart all of you, This has just arrived

Following this letter to PHS the result has been an email from PHS offering full refund of £1045 to be refunded by BACS and termination of my account with immediate effect. My reply to them has been to accept provided they make the payment within 24 hours.

You have been so supportive to me during this whole process and thank you so much for all your help and advice. Also Consumer Direct have been very helpful in their advice and could help others caught in the trap. I will be advising them of the outcome.

Again thank you for all your guidance, with very best wishes

NOTE We will not be bullied by these people, stand your ground, right is right